Fueling Champions: Unleashing Performance Through Nutrition

Jennifer has worked with notable organizations such as the Utah Jazz NBA team, the University of Utah Athletics (Ski & Men's Tennis), the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee, and the USA Volleyball Indoor National Teams.

With her expertise and dedication, Jennifer Ho provides valuable nutritional guidance to optimize the performance and well-being of athletes at various levels, making a significant impact on their success in sports.

 

Full Podcast Transcript

Index

• How nutritional needs change with the seasons
• Eating fresh versus frozen food
• Registered Dietician vs Nutritionist - What’s the difference?
• What makes a good Registered Nutritionist?
• Why does nutrition really matter?
• What does proper nutrition look like for an athlete?
• What’s the biggest pitfall when it comes to athletes and nutrition?
• What nutritional lessons can we learn from top sports teams?
• How does nutrition vary depending on the individual?
• What foods can boost athletic performance?
• Are carbs “bad”?
• What other foods should you eat to boost performance?
• Blackcurrants - The story behind 2before
• 2before - The people and the research
• From the NBA to New Zealand
• The benefits of a food supplement
• What do blackcurrants taste like?
• What does the name 2before stand for?
• What's next for Jen?
• Bonus question #1
• Bonus question #2

Dominic Schlueter (DM): Before we get into today's episode of the podcast I want to tell you about a product I've been using frequently and the product that is used by professional running team Tin Man Elite and teams in the NFL, NBA and NCAA. 

The product is called 2before Blackcurrant Pre-Workout and it delivers the incredible benefits of blackcurrants.

If you guys are unfamiliar with blackcurrants, they're antioxidant-rich berries that are grown in New Zealand. 

The two biggest benefits, in my opinion, from consuming them regularly and using this product from 2before is it increases your endurance as well as kickstarts your recovery.

So during sessions, I feel stronger my endurance feels improved, but also after the workout, I feel more recovered and less tired so that I can hit the next training session harder than I normally would be able to.

I absolutely love 2before. I love this product.

Perhaps my favorite study that I've seen shows that using 2before consistently can improve athletic performance by 4.6%, which is truly remarkable and it's made from three simple ingredients so there's no junk in it.

You guys can get 30 per cent off your order today THERUNNINGEFFECT30. Not only does this get you 30 off but it also gets you free shipping

Jen welcome to the running effect podcast how are you doing this evening?

Jen Ho (JH): I'm doing great thanks so much for having me.

DS: So before we got kicked off we were talking a little bit about the seasons and you were telling me how in New Zealand, which is where you live currently, it's slowly starting to turn into winter. 

I'm curious, what's your favorite season of the year? 

JH: I would say winter because I love the snow. Before I ended up in New Zealand I was living in Salt Lake City, Utah, and if you've ever been there before, the skiing and winter sports are just huge there. It's something I did weekly and I was just always trying to get outside so I'd say winter and fall as a close second.

How nutritional needs change with the seasons

DS: Something I was thinking about there as you were talking about winter being your favorite season is I'm in summer right now, so we're in completely different seasons, but as a registered dietitian, what are your thoughts on how nutrition changes depending on the time of year?

 JH: That's a great question. when it comes to supplements, I immediately think of vitamin D. As most of us know we synthesize a lot of our Vitamin D from the sun, and the in the winter months we tend to be indoors more and even when we're outside we're all covered up.

And depending on what part of the world you're in sometimes the sun doesn't rise high enough for your body to even synthesize vitamin D, so that's a big one that I usually like to address come in the winter months.

And then in terms of food in general, I think most people will go more towards your warm dishes in the winter, versus summer when you're more inclined to eat salads and cold foods. So I think it’s about finding what you enjoy in each season. I wouldn't necessarily say like eat one thing or the other, just find something that you enjoy.

Temperature is probably going to influence that, and then when possible eat seasonally because that produce will have higher nutrient values than when they're out of season.

And, say, you love your berries but it's winter time, opt for the frozen option because those are flash frozen right at harvest, so their nutritional value is still pretty high.

Eating frozen versus fresh food

DS: I would love to hear more about that because that's a subject I've been curious about and I feel like I don't know enough about. Can you speak on the difference between frozen and fresh and when someone should choose fresh versus frozen?

JH: It's seasonal, and also budget-wise as well. Fresh berries are really expensive in the wintertime because they're out of season, so that would be a great time to opt for the frozen option because they're going to be less expensive and their nutrient value will be higher.

In terms of vegetables, same thoughts there, but I also like to have a bag of frozen vegetables in your freezer because they're going to last longer than the fresh ones. I think we've all had that bell pepper or broccoli just that didn't make the cut into our meal prep repertoire, so now it's going bad and now we throw it away. So having your frozen veggies there so that you always have some sort of veg on hand.

DS: What's the difference nutritionally between something fresh versus frozen, and is there a big difference or a disparity there?

JH: There isn't a big difference in terms of nutritional value, it really just comes down to the season. So say if broccoli is out of season wherever you are, the frozen option will likely have a higher nutritional value. 

I’m not saying the fresh one's going to give you absolutely nothing if you're eating out of season. But I think sometimes frozen vegetables and even canned vegetables can also get a bad wrap just because they're not in or because they're in some sort of packaging.

It could be a really convenient option and a more budget-friendly option as well, so they shouldn't be things to exclude just because they're in a bag or a can or something. 

Registered Dietician vs Nutritionist - What’s the difference?

DS: I'm thinking there as you're speaking is, how does she know all this information and then I'm like, oh she's a registered dietitian. Just because, even myself, I've dived deep into the science and the research and there are always things I don't know the answer to and you're explaining a lot of the science to me today.

So I'm curious, can you explain the difference between a registered dietitian, which you are, which is years of practice and study to get that kind of certification, versus something like a nutritionist, which is not a legally binding term so Dominic Schlueter could consider himself a nutritionist and not get in trouble for it.

 JH: Yeah, that's exactly it. Anyone can call themselves a nutritionist.

It's not a regulated title, so if you decided you wanted to become a running nutritionist right after this podcast, just call yourself one and you probably won't get in trouble as long as you're not going too crazy on the recommendations!

So that's pretty much a nutritionist - anyone can call themselves one if they feel inclined to.

In terms of becoming a registered dietitian, you're required to do a four-year program that's accredited - usually in human nutrition or a related field - and you do the prerequisites; it's slowly moving to require a two years master's degree as well in nutrition and dietetics.

Then once you have your degrees done you'll do a 1,200-hour internship across Community Food Service and clinical settings and then after that you will take a board exam. And then Registered Dietician credentials, and then after that we have to get 75 continuing education credits over a five-year cycle!

So we’re constantly learning and constantly looking into what new research says and whatnot, so it's not like we just take that exam and then all the learning just stops there.

There are always things to learn.

What Makes a Good Registered Nutritionist?

DS: So becoming a registered dietitian is a lengthy process and because of that, I feel like it's only going to attract individuals who are genuinely passionate about the subject of nutrition and helping others through nutrition.

At what point in your own life did you realize, hey this is something I'm really passionate about and something I'm willing to go through literally years of studying for tests and going through all these exams to get this dream job?

JH: I started off my college degree in kinesiology thinking I wanted to become an athletic trainer.

I grew up playing sports and have always been around sports, so I knew the hospital setting wasn't for me. So I was, like, okay, what job can I have that'll keep me away from the clinical setting and keep me around sports?

So I dove into athletic training for a little bit and then I think around my biomechanics class I thought, this stuff just doesn't make sense to me, so I was thinking what's next? What else is out there?

I looked into physical therapy and did a little summer internship and I also just didn't quite click with that. 

But when I was volunteering with my College's athletic training program one of their athletic trainers had volunteered or worked with USA volleyball.

They’re based 15 minutes from where I was going to school, so she basically sent me their dietitian's contact info and I just emailed her. I was like, Hey, I'm a college student in this program and I'm just curious about Sports Nutrition. Are you taking on any student interns?

I'm 20 years old, emailing this Olympic dietitian and thinking, she's not gonna respond to me,  why would she?

But a week later she replied and said, why don't you come in and let's chat?

So things just went from there really. 

I knew absolutely nothing and she just took me under her wing and I thought this feels so much better than athletic training or physical therapy, so I just stuck with that and that was the start of my nutrition experiences and exposure.

Why does nutrition really matter?

DS: Something I hear quite a bit, unfortunately, is that nutrition doesn't matter - whether it's in life or more particularly within sports. People say, if you're working hard enough it doesn't matter what you eat.

And, of course, I do think there should be a level of flexibility and days where it's like, yeah, you can totally eat ice cream or pizza or whatever you want, but I always laugh at the individuals who think nutrition doesn't matter at all. 

I say, tell that to me when you have some disease 50 years from now!

So can you explain to me why nutrition matters, but more specifically within a sports sense, why it matters, and how your fueling will affect how your play. 

JH: It's thinking about food as your fuel.

Our bodies use calories for energy and the harder we work the more energy we're going to need. And as we're burning our energy we're going to have to replace our energy, otherwise we're just going to crash.

I like to use a couple of different analogies. 

One is with our phones. Usually, at night time they will recharge our phones so that the next day it's at 100%. Then as the day goes on the battery drops and when it gets to, say, 20%, that's when we put on low battery mode and we try to use our phone less, we try to ration the energy. 

I like to think of our athletes in the same way. 

You rest, you have your body at 100% to start the day, but if you don't recharge your body with food you're just gonna keep going down and eventually end up in whatever your low battery mode looks like.

It's the consistency of eating and the timing that matters and it's not just going throughout the whole day without eating and then eating at the very end of the day. Timing definitely matters!

What does proper nutrition look like for an athlete?

DS: A very broad question for you, but what does proper nutrition look like specifically for an athlete whether it's in running, basketball, whatever?

JH: It's gonna sound very broad because it'll vary significantly between sports, but eating a balance of all three macronutrients: your carbohydrates, your proteins and your fats and then getting your micronutrients through your fruits and veggies, nuts and seeds, and really having that balance of what people would say is healthy and what people would say is unhealthy.

At the end of the day, we're all humans and we're gonna need a dessert at some point right?

So creating that balance of fueling your body when it needs to be fueled and then also enjoying the foods that you may have outside of training or outside of competition as well.

What’s the biggest pitfall when it comes to athletes and nutrition?

DS: What do you think is the biggest pitfall that athletes fall into in terms of sports nutrition? 

JH: Not eating breakfast is one of them, because we're training on an empty stomach, especially if it's a high-intensity training. 

I know there are a lot of early morning training sessions at the collegiate level and the professional level, and it's hard because you wake up at four or five a.m. and eating is the last thing you want to do. 

But if you want to have energy, if you want to be able to make it through the two or three hours of training, you have to find a way to find something that works with your stomach and works with you.

What nutritional lessons can we learn from top sports teams?

DS: For those that don't know, Jen worked for the Utah Jazz for a little bit if I'm not mistaken. I would love to hear about that.

You've been around one of the best NBA basketball teams, but you've also done incredible things in other areas of sports nutrition.

Being around these individuals in these high-performing circles, what are some of the biggest attributes you see around their nutrition and performance?

JH: I would say their habits. A lot of these guys have been doing the same thing for years and it's our job just to help support them and help keep those habits enforced.

Then with the younger guys, it's to educate - providing the education and helping them build those habits to take through their career, take to other teams, wherever they may end up, so they really have a routine down.

This means they've trialled and errored with different supplements, with different timings, with different foods, to see how they feel around their training competition and then they just go with that and keep using the same formula.

How does nutrition vary depending on the individual? 

DS: How does nutrition vary depending on the individual? I've asked a very broad question, but I feel, depending on the individual, nutrition completely changes, so could you speak to that individualistic level and why that's important for our listeners today to take away?

As annoying as it can be, there's not a black-and-white guide to nutrition. It's important, I feel, to realize that, specifically in the age of social media where people are trying to throw you into one group, everyone's different. 

JH: So I'll speak more in the athlete sense. Athletes who are trying to gain weight, who are trying to lose weight and who are trying to maintain weight, those three different scenarios call for different nutritional approaches. 

And then you have to tie in the allergies as well and any intolerances that they have, so if they have celiac disease, if they're lactose intolerant, if they are diabetic - all these different conditions would warrant a different approach than that general advice that's provided. 

And then another thing is just food preferences and cultures, and accommodating what people are comfortable eating and not trying to stretch them too much with unfamiliar cuisines or foods.

What works for someone isn't necessarily going to work for the person next to them, so you have to find the right approach for each person that works for them and supports their training.

What foods can boost athletic performance?

DS: What are some specific foods that you think boost performance, whether it's generic ones or more interesting ones like blackcurrants which I know we'll get into?

JH: I'll start by saying carbohydrates. Carbs are our brain's main source of energy is carbs, so we often think about carbs giving you the energy to work out and whatnot but also think of the mental side of it and the mental concentration.

We've all been there, where we haven't eaten for a while and you start to feel a little lightheaded and can't focus and then you eat something and then you feel better, so carbohydrates are definitely a part of that foundation.

Are carbs “bad”?

DS: Jen, I'm gonna I'm gonna help pause you here and say I hear all the time that carbs are bad. I feel like we see that in the 21st century all the time, whether it's a new book that's coming out, or some random nutritionist - not a registered dietitian! - who's saying carbs are bad. 

Could you explain why they're good for you, why that's a complete myth that's not true at all?

JH: So like I said, carbohydrates are our body's main source of energy, so if we're limiting our carbohydrate intake we may likely feel that afternoon slump - low energy levels throughout the day, poor concentration, poor mental clarity, things like that. 

So you definitely want to include carbohydrates, not only for all the energy aspects I'm talking about, but they also provide a lot of micronutrients.

They come in our bread, our grains, you're going to get all B vitamins out of there. I’ll just keep it to that just because you can go down that rabbit hole.

DS: But on these topics and in the world today where so many people have different nutritional views, and maybe for a listener right now who's a sophomore in high school and they're going to start to implement some of these things, and maybe they thought carbs were bad before but now they're thinking, Jen, that totally makes sense, I want to start incorporating more carbs into my diet.

So then they go to the grocery store and buy bread, but then that one family member that still believes carbs are bad then gets judgmental and starts making them feel bad for eating a certain way.

What would you say to our listeners, from a purely practical standpoint of the outside world and the outside noise? You could be eating a really solid diet for yourself but I feel like they're always people who are going to tell you to eat a different way or detract from what you're doing.

What would be some advice to those people who get that, annoying rudeness sometimes from others about how they're eating?

JH: Going back to "nutrition is so individual" and that can also include your relationship with your nutrition and food is individual you can't please everyone.

You're not going to be able to make your recommendations work for everyone, so remember that we're all on our own nutrition plans and with our own nutrition habits.

 

So control what you can control, which is yourself, and let other people gather their own education and information and make decisions for themselves.

What other foods should you eat to boost performance?

DS: Before I interrupted you about carbs - because I did want to get that that notice out because I get asked that all the time and I'm not a registered dietitian but I do know well enough that carbs are very very good for you if you look into the science you should definitely be eating them - are there any other foods that you think help boost performance?

JH: I'm just thinking of another macronutrient, your protein intake. 

Timing is very important - having your protein after your training alongside your carbohydrates to help repair your muscle and replenish your energy stores.

If you want to be able to train harder run faster and have your muscles more fresh for the next training session, make sure you're getting protein in after training, ideally within an hour.

Blackcurrants - The story behind 2before

DS: I'd love to talk about a company you work for and a company I work with, which is 2before. 

It's based on the science behind the incredible blackcurrant, and blackcurrants have been shown to increase energy, improve endurance, speed up recovery and strengthen immunity.

It sounds like I'm talking about a superfood, but they kind of are a superfood, so could you maybe talk about the benefits of blackcurrants? 

Maybe start with that and then talk about how 2before has made a product that is all about blackcurrants and how it helps athletes truly go after their biggest potential.

JH: Blackcurrants have been shown to improve vasodilation, so essentially increase the blood flow to your muscles so that nutrients can get to them quicker so that they can work harder.

So increased vasodilation improves your immunity by basically acting as a primer.

Without getting too sciency, the blackcurrants put a little bit of stress on your body so that your immune system kicks up. 

Essentially, when we think of antioxidants, we think of kind of scavenging or taking away the inflammatory molecules. 

The blackcurrant mechanism is a little different.

It kind of strengthens your immune system as it is, versus taking away the inflammatory molecules, if that makes sense. 

Vasodilation strengthens your immune system and then the inflammation management helps with tissue repair and muscle recovery.

So it's a really unique product where we say take it before you exercise so that you get the endurance benefits during and then also the recovery benefits afterwards.

2before - The people and the research

We think it's really neat because the product started from a research facility in Auckland, New Zealand, called Plant and Food Institute. They were researching the native berries in New Zealand and blackcurrants just kept coming up as having these benefits for sports performance.

The team was just like, we have to get this to the people, so from there 2before was born.

They've done research studies on it to show these benefits and we've been working to raise awareness and education around the blackcurrant.

The main barrier we have in the US is that there are no blackcurrants in the grocery stores. We don't know what they look like. Does it sound like a berry? It's just kind of this word "blackcurrant" that doesn't sound super enticing either.

So I'm just raising that educational awareness that it is a berry, it's native to New Zealand and some other European countries, and it has all these wonderful benefits.

From the NBA to New Zealand

DS: So, from someone who was working for one of the top NBA teams in the country, why did you decide to move to New Zealand and work for this company 2before, and were you skeptical at all at first when you're hearing some of the science behind it?

And how effective it is it? This is too good to be true?

JH: Yeah, the move to New Zealand, I'm gonna rewind a little bit to give some context. 

Basically, when I was going through school to become a dietitian I always knew I wanted to be in sports. I thought I wanted to do professional sports as my dream job so to say, and I got there and had a wonderful experience, learned a lot, and met amazing humans, but it just wasn't fulfilling me like I thought it would.

I had this moment of, what I’d told myself all these years that would be my dream job doesn't really feel like a dream job right now to me.

So what do I do next?

I've always wanted to live abroad somewhere and experience a new culture, and it's between New Zealand and Canada pretty much for the mountains and the outdoor scene.

New Zealand's visa was a lot simpler and easier to get than going to Canada, so I applied early, thinking, it'll take six months to process this.

Literally, three days later they emailed me saying here's your visa, and I was, like, oh that wasn't supposed to work, now what do I do?

So pretty much after the NBA season ended I stuck around for the summer and helped out the off-season and then in October time I moved over to New Zealand. I didn't move for 2before at all. I had emails or I had texted Charlotte who I met at CPSDA in May and just asked, “Hey, any opportunities for a part-time job, I'm moving over to New Zealand!”

And she said yes, and we just kind of have been doing casual work up until April of 2023 and then that's when I came on full-time.

But it was just taking that risk and taking that leap to explore a new path of nutrition. I never thought I'd be working with a supplement company if I'll be completely honest, but it's been a cool experience and I’ve learned about a lot of things I didn't realize that went into producing a product because I've always been on the consumer end.

In terms of skeptics, before working with them and seeing the research, there are always going to be skeptics with any supplement, truthfully. 

I just was drawn to the product and the people who were behind the product.

It's a small team of four of us, two at the time when I met them and I just felt connected right away when I met them and it just felt right.

The benefits of a food supplement

DS: Is it just me, or is it way easier to trust a supplement when it's an actual legitimate ingredient or food?

It's blackcurrants.

You can Google them, you can see the benefits of them, and this is literally just blackcurrant powder!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's three ingredients, whereas there are other supplements out there where you don't know how to pronounce that ingredient and whatever the label is that shows it's third-party tested so you won't test positive on a drug test or whatnot, which is the last thing an athlete wants.

So I think it's a lot easier to trust when it's a legitimate ingredient that's been shown to improve performance rather than ones that claim things that probably aren't third-party tested and have ingredients that I've never heard of before.

JH: Yeah, exactly. That's one of the reasons that I was drawn to them was the simplicity of their product. It’s literally just blackcurrant powder and then a little sweetener and then another ingredient just to help with solubility, to mix in water.

And I felt like they had the research to back their product and they had the third-party testing.

So I think it's a lot easier to trust when it's a legitimate ingredient that's

So from a dietitian's perspective, I thought, yes they're tested, and yes, they've been researched, and just looking at the ingredients label it's simply just blackcurrant juice.

So that's I was really drawn to that aspect.

What do blackcurrants taste like?

DS: Something I'm sure our listeners are curious about right now is: blackcurrants, okay, I heard the benefits, I've maybe heard that it improves athletic performance by 4.6%.

But blackcurrants. 

That sounds horrible!

They probably taste bad!

Is it really worth it? 

I personally think it tastes good, so Jen what's your opinion on the taste of it? Because at the end of the day, I feel like humans, even if something is shown to help them, if it tastes horrible it's going to be hard to get them to take it.

And a great example of this, I don't work with them right now so I feel like I can totally say this, Athletic Greens is one of those products that everyone knows about, but I feel like it's like greens powder basically. 

There are so many benefits of it, but it just tastes horrible to me and I have to force myself to drink it, whereas, with 2before, it's just like, I could just drink this if it tasted good even if there were no benefits, right?

What are your thoughts on the taste of it?

JH: Yeah, I really enjoy the taste of 2before.

I think our palates are all unique, so someone might think Athletic Greens’ taste is amazing, even though you don't think it tastes amazing.

We are definitely individualized when it comes to our palates, but I would describe 2before blackcurrant as a tart, tangy sweet all-in-one kind of flavor for blackcurrants.

It mixes well with smoothies, and it tastes great with just plain water, but if you need a little touch of sweetness, mixing it with a bit of apple juice is also quite nice.

What does the name 2before stand for?

DS: I should know this by now, but I'm sure you know this since you work with them - what is the name 2before mean, and how'd they come up with it the name?

JH: The name 2before came from having two benefits: You want to take it before you train, so really focusing on the endurance benefit and then the muscle recovery and everything that is entailed in that, so the inflammation management, tissue repair, training adaptations.

So you're getting two benefits, and then you take it before you train.

DS: 2before is currently used in the NFL, MBA, and the NCAA, I believe Team USA has used it and something that I'm sure many of my listeners are familiar with a big running professional team in the US, Tin Man Elite, they also use 2before.

2before is used by professional and college teams all over the United States

What's it like from your perspective being a part of the company to see all these high-level teams use your product and really, really enjoy it, like NFL and NBA teams? 

From a consumer perspective, it's like, if they're using it, they vet all the products, they use, so it's got to be legit!

JH: Yeah, it's really exciting to see it grow. It's a slow steady work towards increasing the awareness and education around what blackcurrants are.

Like I said, in the US we don't grow up seeing them in the stores like they do here in New Zealand.

They’re not a familiar thing like other fruits and veggies that we see in the store, so it's really exciting to see people try it and enjoy it and then order it for themselves and their teams.

I feel like we're just getting started. 

Honestly, I think there are going to be a lot more teams and individuals taking 2before soon. We're just slowly chugging along.

DS: As we wrap up today's conversation, what is a final message you want to leave with our audience today about nutrition? 

Whether it's starting tomorrow doing something new, or maybe a limiting mindset they have surrounding it that's holding them back. 

JH: Enjoy everything in moderation and don't restrict yourself if you don't have to.

No foods should be off-limits.

Granted, if you have a severe allergy or severe intolerance it probably won't be the best idea to eat those foods, but if you don't, then take everything in moderation.

What's next for Jen?

DS: And then Jen a question a personal question for you. A question I ask a lot of track athletes on here is, what do you want to accomplish before you hang up the track spikes?

So for you, I don't know the equivalent of track spikes for a registered dietician, but what are some things you want to accomplish or do before you, I guess, “retire”?

JH: Oh my, I feel like I'm just getting started in my career! To think about retirement is not something that has come to mind recently. I think just continuing to share my perspective towards life and nutrition careers.

I think a lot of people are afraid of veering from your classic Collegiate setting or professional setting. There's very much a path you can follow and I think when I kind of jumped ship to the supplement side it felt a little bit odd at first because my friends are in the sports setting and now I'm kind of on the other side of it.

I guess just continuing to encourage people to take risks, challenge themselves and not be afraid to get out of their comfort zone.

Bonus question #1

DS: Normally I'd wait to ask the guests this until after, but Jen we're having a good time, we're having a fun conversation with each other and the listeners always love hearing the subjects that people discussed before and after because they just want to hear everything.

Is this the first podcast you've ever done?

JH: Yes, I would say so. 

 DS: The reason I ask is because I'm unbelievably impressed with your responses and your clarity. We’ve got to do more of these because this is your first podcast but you’d never guess it, so you're crushing it.

JH: I know this I'm pretty sure this is my first podcast hopefully I haven't forgotten anyone 

Bonus question #2

DS: Awesome. Well, one final question for you, the question I ask every single guest on the show. If you had Gordon Ramsay coming over for dinner what would you choose to make for him?

JH: Honestly, I like a good homemade pizza. I'll be completely honest, making the dough from scratch, making the sauce from scratch, and then whatever toppings Gordon wants.

DS: I love it. 

Well, Jen, it's been an absolute pleasure having this conversation and learning from you and all your wisdom. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this and best of luck with everything upcoming.

JH: Awesome, thanks so much for having me Dominic, it was really fun chatting.

DS: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of The Running Effect with Dominic Schlueter. I don't take your time for granted and I hope that today's episode impacted you and left you walking away inspired and all the more motivated to chase after your biggest goals and walk away a better version of yourself.

Make sure you're following the podcast have given us a five-star review and consider sharing with a friend. Through that, we can reach new people and hopefully inspire them in the process.

Also, make sure you're following us on social media at The Running Effect to stay up to date on all the exciting projects and all the new episodes coming out.

Generally, we release two to three episodes per week, so stay tuned for all of those coming your way shortly. I hope you're running and life is going well, guys, keep chasing mastery and I will catch you in the next episode.

 

Unleash your performance with blackcurrant pre-workout